I really treasure your writing because it says so much of what I often think.
I have thought a lot in the last year about the story of the man who stood outside the White House during the Vietnam war repeatedly and he was asked why he continued standing there because he wasn't really changing anything with just his one little sign. And he said something along the lines of how I don't do it to change the country but I do it so the country doesn't change me. Sometimes I wonder why I'm not out protesting in the streets and why I'm not more vocal and why I'm not more angry ( and I think there is a place for all of those things).
But I realize that for me the ways in which I can volunteer in my community and get involved with encouraging people to get out and vote and make muffins for my neighbors and stay engaged in my community even when I know that people disagree with me politically, those are the things that allow me to hold on to my humanity. It helps me remember that the people around me are also human beings and that what matters most to me is not changing their minds but treating them with respect and loving them well.
Yes and honestly, showing up for your neighbor, volunteering, risking hard conversations at dinner time…all of that is (in so many ways) harder than posting on social media. I love what you are doing. I believe it is making a difference!
I don't think I would have remotely considered this to be the "good fight" or "running the race" when I was a child, I imagine I thought that Paul was talking about something far more intellectual and elevated. But I think the older I get the more I realize that that's exactly applicable to our lives now.
It's such a fine line to walk, when solidarity with the oppressed looks like grieving with our neighbor (including anger) and when diplomacy and any hope of progress depends on finding common ground and patient communication with the oppressor and those enabling/empowering them. It's not helpful to scream slogans and dehumanize along with either side, and also not helpful for us to become Dr. King's "white moderates" that would prolong suffering and injustice to avoid conflicts or to risk our standing with the power-holding oppressors. It's also so hard to discern what's other's solidarity, allyship, and advocacy vs aiding the harm by refusing to grieve, risk, and experience vulnerability as a function of privilege or fragility. It's impossible to know what any one person is doing behind the scenes and also there is a lot of fear driving that anger: fear that more people we trusted are going to fall under the spell, that "safe" people will betray us, that more and more voters will be swayed to compromise on our rights and dignity. You're right, all of this is right, and also I think the skills you've taught us about communal grieving are vital. Neither revenge nor passive resignation, neither trying to burn it all down through civil war nor trying to save our own skin through cozying up to a death cult. It's very very difficult to do, and even harder to communicate.
This is EXACTLY it. It was the "white moderate" that ultimately upheld white supremacy for far too long. I think (I hope) you see what I'm getting at. I know so many people who are actually moving towards changing their minds on Trump, but they've been so belittled and shamed by the other side, they are afraid to come over, you know? All I'm saying is that if we can somehow keep moving TOWARDS each other while maintaining our strong convictions, then I actually have hope that we can achieve the changes that are so necessary.
Haha no, it's part of a concept I've been trying to put into words for a long time, based on Brene Brown's work and your sister's work. "Wholehearted faith" is already taken so I don't have a term for the whole thing yet, but essentially the spiritual side of the shame/guilt difference and the impacts of the intolerance of vulnerability that are at the root of every issue we face. 😁The courage to say "this is wrong. Period." And the courage to sit with grief and fear and nuance and lose-lose situations and deprogramming complex psychological conditioning.
Hello Jenna and Amanda. Both of you are passionate about your convictions and seem to want to encourage true dialogue about today's complex political issues. And yet, as someone to your right politically, I find inflammatory expressions like "power-holding oppressors" and "death cult" lead me to think conversation is pointless, which means that our country really is divided in such ways that it isn't likely to recover from. I don't want to believe that, but I don't see much in the way of moral humility on either the left or right. Instead I read and hear too much moral certainty and even superiority, which isn't a good place from which to begin genuine dialogue. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
Thanks Charlie, first of all I just want to thank you so much for jumping in with this perspective. Dialogue like this is so necessary. Vocabulary matters a lot, and for my part, I always try to use actual titles (ICE, the President, Secretary of Homeland Security), and then simply describe the actions that seem misaligned with constitutional rights or morality.
In my view, they are not inflammatory (or meant as rhetorical tactics) but simply how the math checks out. Just a spade a spade. If a set of data says "this leads to harm and death" and history says "this leads to harm and death" and the people currently affected say "this is harming and killing us" and we can see with our own eyes the harm and death, and then a group of power holders form specific, targeted goals and policies based on that qualitative and quantitative data, often quoting it directly, and actively recruit people to that cause, to inflict more harm and death, and engage in tactics to silence those they are harming and killing as well as those who advocate for them... it's not logical to conclude they are anything but a group devoted to harm and death. 🤷♀️ Not trying to be anything but clear and mathematical. If I'm to the left of anything, it's because the left happened to align with the objective data on that issue, not because I'm particularly attached or interested in upholding a particular "side" or "team" or ideology. To me, it's not about partisanship but logic and truth. It is simply true that A+B=C, and I have values I adhere too, so wherever that falls on the political spectrum is fine with me. Humility is a virtue for anyone, and so is integrity. I pray we can hold them both higher than names, labels, and sides. Tolerance of vulnerability can take those two and move them into repentance, repair, and courage in the face of risk to our false narratives and insecure attachments in the interest of truth the solid rock and firm foundation.
I do appreciate your willingness to be so forthright with your views. I agree completely with your last two sentences, but as for what precedes those, I suppose there is so much generalization that it's hard to say. A spade may also be called a shovel or a delver; all are true digging implements, but there can be important and nuanced differences that "spade is a spade" misses or glosses over. Life itself leads to harm and death, so it's obvious (or should be) that all sorts of social programs and policies will never be harmless. But, I don't want to blow up the comments section with lengthy arguments. My point was that moral certainty makes debate impossible and I think you've made my point quite well. Blessings and peace.
Graciousness... such a good word. It hurts my heart, how we (as in I) have forgotten how we belong to one another. I keep thinking about if I owned a little cafe in Minneapolis and a group of ICE agents walked in to eat a meal. What would I do? Yes, the hair on the back of my neck would stand. But -- I want to say I would feed them... would that be wrong? Isn't the table for... everyone?
I must have seen some of the same posts by the Christian influencers you reference, and a number of Christians more generally, and tried to work out my own response to what was going on.
Thank you for writing this and wrestling out loud. I’m tired and while I don’t think escapism is the way, I do think there’s a time for speaking and a time for silence. But, then in this climate, our silence is weaponized as violence. And when we speak, if every angle, people group, perspective is not considered and one wrong word is uttered, you are in danger of being cancelled, even by those who have witnessed first hand, your character and the way you’ve tangibly shown up and lived life. It is exhausting. I find myself on my knees in the secret place, more often than not.
Thank you for this, Amanda. You sum up how I have largely felt recently.
I recently shared a post on Facebook with constructive appeals to conservatives and liberals. I too share your heart for bridge building.
The comments confirm the anger you described. One accused the article of “humanizing Nazis”, while others made sweeping generalizations that all protesters are violent. Our collective conscious seems to be stuck in fight or flight. The goal now seems to be to win, not to form reasonable solutions.
I’ve felt a sense of urgency to start a Substack, partly to write and appeal to similar themes mentioned in this article.
Just know that your voice and measured words greatly encourages so many of us.
Thank you thank you for writing this. I feel all of this, but particularly that pressure of not being angry enough on social media. I'd rather have my important conversations in person than through memes. Love how your church is supporting the processing of these moments. Would love to do something like that at mine.
I can't fully express how this post ministered to me. I feel almost as if I were at the table when you all met together to listen and lament. My heart hurts. I go through my days feeling grief. Thank you for putting into words what I have been considering. Last night I made yet another trip to the grocery store to prepare for the big storm. The lines were long, but the customers and cashiers alike were smiling and speaking kindly to each other. I didn't know how much I needed that communal space, how healing it was. Perhaps that's our calling now, to sow peace and encouragement in the places God puts us.
I was particularly moved by the conversation over present events that your church community was able to share together. I am curious to know if there are any foundational practices that you laid to be able to build a safe place for that conversation? I lead a small group in my church - which is still pretty new, so we are still finding our feet - but I would love to nudge things in the right direction for building a safe place to share and process these kinds of things together (even when opinions differ!).
Jeremiah 8:11 (the whole chapter is worth reading).
This verse is how I feel- I want Christians to stop pretending things are fine, that everyone's opinion is equal, and that "Illegals being rounded up" is not the equivalent of the first steps of Nazi Germany. There can be no peace when the wounds of the people are not addressed. Jesus literally told the religious people of his day to "Go and learn what this means, I desire Mercy, and not sacrifice." Matthew 9:13. Matthew 10:34-36 also makes for interesting reading during this time.
Also, in some ways, it's time for white Christians like me to just shut up and learn from Black Christians who have been here before. Black Christians have had a lot more to forgive white people for than I currently have to forgive the white Christians justifying "illegals being rounded up." If anyone has not yet read Strength to Love by MLK, I highly recommend it! I have learned much from him about forgiveness and loving enemies.
I really treasure your writing because it says so much of what I often think.
I have thought a lot in the last year about the story of the man who stood outside the White House during the Vietnam war repeatedly and he was asked why he continued standing there because he wasn't really changing anything with just his one little sign. And he said something along the lines of how I don't do it to change the country but I do it so the country doesn't change me. Sometimes I wonder why I'm not out protesting in the streets and why I'm not more vocal and why I'm not more angry ( and I think there is a place for all of those things).
But I realize that for me the ways in which I can volunteer in my community and get involved with encouraging people to get out and vote and make muffins for my neighbors and stay engaged in my community even when I know that people disagree with me politically, those are the things that allow me to hold on to my humanity. It helps me remember that the people around me are also human beings and that what matters most to me is not changing their minds but treating them with respect and loving them well.
Yes and honestly, showing up for your neighbor, volunteering, risking hard conversations at dinner time…all of that is (in so many ways) harder than posting on social media. I love what you are doing. I believe it is making a difference!
I don't think I would have remotely considered this to be the "good fight" or "running the race" when I was a child, I imagine I thought that Paul was talking about something far more intellectual and elevated. But I think the older I get the more I realize that that's exactly applicable to our lives now.
Gosh that is so well said!
It's such a fine line to walk, when solidarity with the oppressed looks like grieving with our neighbor (including anger) and when diplomacy and any hope of progress depends on finding common ground and patient communication with the oppressor and those enabling/empowering them. It's not helpful to scream slogans and dehumanize along with either side, and also not helpful for us to become Dr. King's "white moderates" that would prolong suffering and injustice to avoid conflicts or to risk our standing with the power-holding oppressors. It's also so hard to discern what's other's solidarity, allyship, and advocacy vs aiding the harm by refusing to grieve, risk, and experience vulnerability as a function of privilege or fragility. It's impossible to know what any one person is doing behind the scenes and also there is a lot of fear driving that anger: fear that more people we trusted are going to fall under the spell, that "safe" people will betray us, that more and more voters will be swayed to compromise on our rights and dignity. You're right, all of this is right, and also I think the skills you've taught us about communal grieving are vital. Neither revenge nor passive resignation, neither trying to burn it all down through civil war nor trying to save our own skin through cozying up to a death cult. It's very very difficult to do, and even harder to communicate.
This is EXACTLY it. It was the "white moderate" that ultimately upheld white supremacy for far too long. I think (I hope) you see what I'm getting at. I know so many people who are actually moving towards changing their minds on Trump, but they've been so belittled and shamed by the other side, they are afraid to come over, you know? All I'm saying is that if we can somehow keep moving TOWARDS each other while maintaining our strong convictions, then I actually have hope that we can achieve the changes that are so necessary.
Yep. We as a collective are very bad at invitational conviction and very good at weaponized shame and weaponized conformity.
ooooo, is that term "invitational conviction" trademarked??? So good!
Haha no, it's part of a concept I've been trying to put into words for a long time, based on Brene Brown's work and your sister's work. "Wholehearted faith" is already taken so I don't have a term for the whole thing yet, but essentially the spiritual side of the shame/guilt difference and the impacts of the intolerance of vulnerability that are at the root of every issue we face. 😁The courage to say "this is wrong. Period." And the courage to sit with grief and fear and nuance and lose-lose situations and deprogramming complex psychological conditioning.
It's so good, Jenna. Really appreciate your thoughts here.
Back atcha, friend!
Hello Jenna and Amanda. Both of you are passionate about your convictions and seem to want to encourage true dialogue about today's complex political issues. And yet, as someone to your right politically, I find inflammatory expressions like "power-holding oppressors" and "death cult" lead me to think conversation is pointless, which means that our country really is divided in such ways that it isn't likely to recover from. I don't want to believe that, but I don't see much in the way of moral humility on either the left or right. Instead I read and hear too much moral certainty and even superiority, which isn't a good place from which to begin genuine dialogue. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.
Thanks Charlie, first of all I just want to thank you so much for jumping in with this perspective. Dialogue like this is so necessary. Vocabulary matters a lot, and for my part, I always try to use actual titles (ICE, the President, Secretary of Homeland Security), and then simply describe the actions that seem misaligned with constitutional rights or morality.
In my view, they are not inflammatory (or meant as rhetorical tactics) but simply how the math checks out. Just a spade a spade. If a set of data says "this leads to harm and death" and history says "this leads to harm and death" and the people currently affected say "this is harming and killing us" and we can see with our own eyes the harm and death, and then a group of power holders form specific, targeted goals and policies based on that qualitative and quantitative data, often quoting it directly, and actively recruit people to that cause, to inflict more harm and death, and engage in tactics to silence those they are harming and killing as well as those who advocate for them... it's not logical to conclude they are anything but a group devoted to harm and death. 🤷♀️ Not trying to be anything but clear and mathematical. If I'm to the left of anything, it's because the left happened to align with the objective data on that issue, not because I'm particularly attached or interested in upholding a particular "side" or "team" or ideology. To me, it's not about partisanship but logic and truth. It is simply true that A+B=C, and I have values I adhere too, so wherever that falls on the political spectrum is fine with me. Humility is a virtue for anyone, and so is integrity. I pray we can hold them both higher than names, labels, and sides. Tolerance of vulnerability can take those two and move them into repentance, repair, and courage in the face of risk to our false narratives and insecure attachments in the interest of truth the solid rock and firm foundation.
I do appreciate your willingness to be so forthright with your views. I agree completely with your last two sentences, but as for what precedes those, I suppose there is so much generalization that it's hard to say. A spade may also be called a shovel or a delver; all are true digging implements, but there can be important and nuanced differences that "spade is a spade" misses or glosses over. Life itself leads to harm and death, so it's obvious (or should be) that all sorts of social programs and policies will never be harmless. But, I don't want to blow up the comments section with lengthy arguments. My point was that moral certainty makes debate impossible and I think you've made my point quite well. Blessings and peace.
Graciousness... such a good word. It hurts my heart, how we (as in I) have forgotten how we belong to one another. I keep thinking about if I owned a little cafe in Minneapolis and a group of ICE agents walked in to eat a meal. What would I do? Yes, the hair on the back of my neck would stand. But -- I want to say I would feed them... would that be wrong? Isn't the table for... everyone?
I must have seen some of the same posts by the Christian influencers you reference, and a number of Christians more generally, and tried to work out my own response to what was going on.
https://rkeithr.substack.com/p/poetry-the-stained-glass
This is really beautiful!!
Well said. We need more voices like yours contributing to our public discourse.
🙏🏻
Yes and amen - thank you, sister.
Thank you for writing this and wrestling out loud. I’m tired and while I don’t think escapism is the way, I do think there’s a time for speaking and a time for silence. But, then in this climate, our silence is weaponized as violence. And when we speak, if every angle, people group, perspective is not considered and one wrong word is uttered, you are in danger of being cancelled, even by those who have witnessed first hand, your character and the way you’ve tangibly shown up and lived life. It is exhausting. I find myself on my knees in the secret place, more often than not.
Thank you for this, Amanda. You sum up how I have largely felt recently.
I recently shared a post on Facebook with constructive appeals to conservatives and liberals. I too share your heart for bridge building.
The comments confirm the anger you described. One accused the article of “humanizing Nazis”, while others made sweeping generalizations that all protesters are violent. Our collective conscious seems to be stuck in fight or flight. The goal now seems to be to win, not to form reasonable solutions.
I’ve felt a sense of urgency to start a Substack, partly to write and appeal to similar themes mentioned in this article.
Just know that your voice and measured words greatly encourages so many of us.
I am coming back to this a week later becauese I appreciated it so much.
Thank-you
Thank you thank you for writing this. I feel all of this, but particularly that pressure of not being angry enough on social media. I'd rather have my important conversations in person than through memes. Love how your church is supporting the processing of these moments. Would love to do something like that at mine.
I can't fully express how this post ministered to me. I feel almost as if I were at the table when you all met together to listen and lament. My heart hurts. I go through my days feeling grief. Thank you for putting into words what I have been considering. Last night I made yet another trip to the grocery store to prepare for the big storm. The lines were long, but the customers and cashiers alike were smiling and speaking kindly to each other. I didn't know how much I needed that communal space, how healing it was. Perhaps that's our calling now, to sow peace and encouragement in the places God puts us.
I deeply appreciated this piece!
I was particularly moved by the conversation over present events that your church community was able to share together. I am curious to know if there are any foundational practices that you laid to be able to build a safe place for that conversation? I lead a small group in my church - which is still pretty new, so we are still finding our feet - but I would love to nudge things in the right direction for building a safe place to share and process these kinds of things together (even when opinions differ!).
"They dress the wound of my people
as though it were not serious.
“Peace, peace,” they say,
when there is no peace."
Jeremiah 8:11 (the whole chapter is worth reading).
This verse is how I feel- I want Christians to stop pretending things are fine, that everyone's opinion is equal, and that "Illegals being rounded up" is not the equivalent of the first steps of Nazi Germany. There can be no peace when the wounds of the people are not addressed. Jesus literally told the religious people of his day to "Go and learn what this means, I desire Mercy, and not sacrifice." Matthew 9:13. Matthew 10:34-36 also makes for interesting reading during this time.
Also, in some ways, it's time for white Christians like me to just shut up and learn from Black Christians who have been here before. Black Christians have had a lot more to forgive white people for than I currently have to forgive the white Christians justifying "illegals being rounded up." If anyone has not yet read Strength to Love by MLK, I highly recommend it! I have learned much from him about forgiveness and loving enemies.
So good Amanda. Thank you! It’s so hard listening to all the hate. We will not be a
Part of it. We will go the way of Jesus! Help us Lord❣️
Thank you. These words are gentle and discerning and generous and wise. These words help to soften some of the hardened places within me. Thank you.
I SO appreciate your thoughtfulness.